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From: Doug Dlin (apcog@hotmail.com) Subject: Re: Wing Saber vs. Mega-Dinobot: A Lesson View: Complete Thread (52 articles) Original Format Newsgroups: alt.toys.transformers Date: 2004-11-15 18:23:26 PST On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 01:31:42 GMT, M Sipher wrote: Because both are prime examples as to why neither Takara or Hasbro should be allowed to make Transformers without extensively working with the other company on them. Steve-o Stonebraker wrote: That's sort of an interesting point, but I have a question: What is the source of your (apparent) into that Wing Saber had no Hasbro involvement? I hadn't heard that one before. I *had* heard about the Dinobots, although I don't recall the source of that one... Could you restate both? Sipher had me double-check with Hirofumi Ichikawa on this one, since he did the design art for Wing Saber. Ichikawa-san gave me a nice, LONG response, which not only clarifies things about WS but also about the current TF design process in general. Feel free to edit it into the FAQ wherever you feel it's applicable, Steve-O. It'll be framed here by commentary on Wing Saber, but I'll add extra space above and below the general development commentary to set it apart. Some elements of the WS commentary might still be worth working into the general commentary, though. ------------------------------------------------------------------ True, the Wing Saber toy was a Takara request, and development of it began after Omega Supreme's. However, Hasbro did participate at a few points in the process, so you couldn't say it was solely a Takara product. And as with all the characters, the details of the toy development are quite complicated. (It's not nearly as simple as the "Hasbro = Design, Takara = Engineering" scheme often brought up among the fans.) This seems like a good opportunity, so let me explain about the toy production process. (Though I should note that some points may be insufficiently covered, as this will be limited to the scope of my personal knowledge. Also, this is just the current procedure in which I take part; the methods used during the middle and later periods of G1 may have been different.) Broadly divided, toy development proceeds through steps as follows: 1. BRIEFING Takara and Hasbro consult each other by interview, fax and e-mail on the series' direction, distinctive gimmicks, character organization, transformation motifs and so on. 2. CONCEPT SKETCHES Hasbro's designers present rough images of the various characters and gimmicks. In most cases, Hasbro mainly suggests the alternate form design, such as the vehicle or beast mode. Sometimes they send sketches of both robot and vehicle modes, but the actual transformation mechanism hasn't been considered at this point in the process. (And depending on the character, sometimes the concepts themselves are abbreviated or omitted.) The TF design images revealed by Hasbro or Draxhall Jump are almost all from this stage. 3. BASIC PLANNING The Takara designers complete the finished vision of the characters, then set about planning the specific transformation mechanisms. When it's Hasbro's concept, they respect it as much and endeavor to reproduce it as closely as they can, but when this is physically impossible, this is the point where design elements that interfere with the transformation or gimmicks get changed. (At this stage, the character of the vehicle and robot modes are still vague, so this is when they decide the where the axes for hinges or joints will go or how to handle the internal space for the gimmick(s). Aside from all that, Takara also draws up the schematics for the transformation process and parts organization, which are used to explain the toy to the prototype production company. 4. FINALIZED DESIGN And here's where I finally come in! Takara's blueprints and schematics, Hasbro's sketch materials and so on are sent to illustrators or "mecha designers" like us, and we draw up the design images that decide the final outward appearance, details, character features, etc. We draw and provide front and rear views of each mode and weapon, the reverse views of parts where need be, and the various angle shots needed for the work of the prototypers, TV show CG modelers, and animation character designers. We usually get supervision from Hasbro during this work, or even afterwards. *I think anyone who saw the design panel for Transtech Starscream will understand this process well, but just in case, here's a link:
The color image at upper left is Hasbro's concept design, while the line art at upper right is Takara's final design. In this fashion, the design produced by Takara is the one ultimately used, regardless of the character. I was in charge of seven designs for Energon (Optimus, Scorponok, Megatron, Divebomb, Cruellock, Omega Supreme, and Wing Saber--that's in the order they were developed), and am now in charge of several more for Cybertron. You can see a few of my design images on ASM's web page (www.alteredstatesmag.com). 5. PROTOTYPE MANUFACTURE Based on Takara's blueprints and our designs, an affiliated prototype production company establishes a full-blown blueprint and makes the first prototype. The prototypes covered in gray surfacer that you see in catalogs and such are from this stage. 6. COST ANALYSIS/DIE PRODUCTION Costs are calculated using the diagrams and prototype(s) as reference. Depending on these calculations, a few gimmicks or movable parts that were present in the design/prototype stage may be deleted. (Gimmicks and parts are also sometimes omitted depending on weight limitations.) Since the priority for TF play value goes Transformation > Gimmick > Posability, there are even times when posability, with its low preference level, gets deleted in the Planning phase. Hasbro's cost range, weight restrictions and package size regulations are extremely strict compared to Takara's, and there are times when these place limitations on the design itself. After these assessments are received, the revised prototype is sent to the die factory in China, where they make a "master model," a model with parts made of metal, and the die is shaved out using a technology called "electrical discharge machining." 7. COLOR ASSIGNMENT In almost all cases, Hasbro is in charge of assigning color schemes. They coordinate colors based on the Pantone color guide on the design images from Step 4. (However, there are also characters colored by Takara, like Wing Saber.) 8. PRODUCTION And then we go through the package/booklet production, molding, assembly, and packaging work, and the toy is finally completed as a commercial product and sent out to everyone. And that completes this rough overview of a TF toy's journey from development to production. While Wing Saber is definitely primarily a Takara product, its development also followed the above process, so I wouldn't say you could view it as a counterpart to Mega-Dinobot. (Mega-Dinobot's development was done entirely without Takara's involvement.) Wing Saber's toy was developed with the most heavily stressed concepts being, "It should combine several ways with Optimus and make him even bigger than his first super mode." This all had to be implemented within the framework of Hasbro's Mega-size product package measurements and weight limitations, so the Takara designers devoted quite a lot of trouble to it. Wing Saber's lack of posability is all due to these limitations. And for this project, Hasbro also added the instruction that it couldn't be split up into separate pieces for the packaging, which was a big constraint on the design. Takara's designers said that they could probably have given WS's vehicle mode much better styling if not for these conditions. Ironically, the American-market Wing Saber in question was packaged split up into separate pieces! This sort of thing probably happens a lot in the business world. Also, regarding WS's lack of a hand weapon, the developer had hoped to make the Energon Saber his main weapon, but unfortunately, his request wasn't granted. That's all there is to tell about Wing Saber, but there's probably back-stories like this for all toy development. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Doug Dlin
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