> Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 06:57:04 -0700 (PDT) > From: Frank George Valoczy > Subject: Re: Re: Detritus - Stoopid Kweschun > > > > > >> Anybody happen to know why Takara jumped over six > >> numbers to land on 77? > > > > Predacons. :) > > > >> (And before you say 'Predacons', yeah, great, we > >> can all count--they've 'D-' numbers of their > >> own...but then, Powerglide...rrghk.) > > > > What of Powerglide? In the list, he's C-62... > > > I know little of the original Takara numbering system > > outside of the few cards I have from my reissues and > > the ones I got from Devvi a while back. Was there a > > 77 originally? I'm under the impression the 'C' was > > added for Metroplex since Ultra Magnus is listed as 69 > > on his profile card. However, I'm woefully ignorant, > > so please forgive me. > > Here's where I pull Generations off the bookshelf, and get confused - why > is there kana interspersed with hanzi? :P > > Well, according to the list in the back, there wasn't a '77', apart from > Battle Beast Shadow Warrior Bureeiiguru (= something-eagle?), but I'm > pretty sure that we're ignoring those. > > Proper TFs, there wasn't one numbered simply '77'. *C-77* was Rodimus > Prime, and *D-77* was Headstrong. > > In this list, Ultra Magnus is C-69, and Metroplex is C-70. According to > the list, the C- and D- prefixes start at #50 - with C-50 being > Silverbolt, and D-50 being Motormaster. > > Another interesting thing I noticed in the list is Dirge, who is numbered > as simply '97'. Not D-97, just 97. The part where he is looks like this: > > 1986 D-55 Menasor > 1986 D-56 Ramjet > 1986 D-57 Thrust > 1986 97 Dirge > 1984 D-58 Frenzy > 1984 D-59 Ravage > > D-97 is Flywheels, and there doesn't seem to be anything missing from the > sequence. Dirge is asterisked as *32 with a footnote at the bottom of the > page (p. 155), unfortunately I can't read Japanese enough to figure it > out...and then, Ironhide is 98 and Ratchet is 99. > > This is bugging me enough, that looked at the list piecemeal...not that > the results'll be anything useful, but eh... > > I made a sequential list. The numbered (no C- or D-) TFs go from 01 to 49. > From 50 on, I filled in those toys that didn't have a number (US-only > releases and Japanese specials), those that were listed with VSX or VSZ, > Rumble (who is listed as 17 in brackets - 17 is Soundwave), the 3 > Powerdashers, the 8 Motorised Transformers, Autoceptor and Deceptor, and > this took me up to and including '80'. > > The remaining gap - 81 to 96 inclusive (16 toys) - how to fill? Hm, I > pondered. If we take away the stupid stuff (Powerdashers etc, but leaving > the VS-numbered toys and Rumble), that gives us a gap of 68 to 96 > inclusive (28 toys). > > The D-numbered toys listed before Dirge in the list are 8 items. This > would leave either 8 or 20 gaps to fill - except that Cybertrons are > listed first. > > Well, let's look. And we find a problem. The first six C-numbered toys are > the 5 individual Aerialbots and Superion, after that are 9 minibots, > including a renumbered Bumblebee (Why? Another variant? Joy...). So, > rewind... > > If we put the 6 Aerialbot numbers followed by the 6 Stunticon numbers > (which are the first 6 D- numbers), we go up to 92 if we include all the > stupid toys, 79 if we don't. If the latter, we've a gap of 4 to fill, of > which the second two must be Ramjet and Thrust (let's give them the > working numbers 95 and 96). Meaning: with the crap, we've 2 spots to fill, > but 15 spots if we don't include them. Back to the list. > > There are 9 minibots after the Aerialbots with C-numbers, plus two > (Warpath and Cosmos) who do not, making possibly 11. There are four > Autobot cassettes after that, making a total of 15 toys. Which fits the > pattern of > > Bot Gestalt > Con Gestalt > Bot Minis > Bot Tapes > Con Jets > Con Tapes > > So, we can gather that the stupid toys - the Powerdashers, the 'Motorised > Transformers' and Autoceptor and Deceptor - were not in the sequence as I > would assume was initially planned (but, as the data shows, in 1986 they > decided to go to the C- and D- numbers). > > The above deductions lead to this. We can reasonably assume that the toys > with C- and D- numbers fit into the original letterless numbering scheme, > whilst maintaining the position of Dirge, Ironhide and Ratchet at 97, 98 > and 99. The last letterless number was > > 49 Shockwave > > We can assume, with satisfactory degree of certainty, that the intervening > numbers between Shockwave and Dirge were filled thusly: > > 50 Gears > 51 Sunstreaker > 52 Rumble > 53 Buzzsaw > 54 Skids > 55 Topspin > 56 Twintwist > 57 Overdrive > 58 Downshift > 59 Camshaft > 60 Jetfire > 61 Omega Supreme > 62 Roadbuster > 63 Whirl > 64 Chopshop > 65 Barrage > 66 Venom > 67 Ransack > 68 Silverbolt > 69 Skydive > 70 Fireflight > 71 Slingshot > 72 Airraid > 73 Superion > 74 Motormaster > 75 Breakdown > 76 Drag Strip > 77 Wildrider > 78 Dead End > 79 Menasor > 80 Bumblebee > 81 Hubcap > 82 Swerve > 83 Outback > 84 Pipes > 85 Tailgate > 86 Powerglide > 87 Beachcomber > 88 Seaspray > 89 Warpath > 90 Cosmos > 91 Steeljaw > 92 Ramhorn > 93 Rewind > 94 Eject > 95 Ramjet > 96 Thrust > > Which then of course is followed by > > 97 Dirge > 98 Ironhide > 99 Ratchet > > Of course, the order of 50 to 94 inclusive is conjectural, but it is drawn > from the sequence given in the list in Generations. 50 to 67 I'm not > certain about, but after that, 68 to 96/97 inclusive, I'd probably put > money on. > > We could continue the list, with Ultra Magnus at 100, but that's beyond > the scope of my interest. I only wanted to figure out why Dirge, Ironhide > and Ratchet got the numbers they got. > > And, I think I've reached an answer I can be satisfied with, until such > time as someone Official from Takara tells me otherwise. Or somebody else > presents a more convincing theory. > > I hope I haven't bored you - this took me a full 2 hours to figure out! > > Message: 14 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 20:56:38 EDT From: DefensisPrime Subject: Re: Re: Detritus - Stoopid Kweschun In a message dated 9/14/2004 9:00:10 AM CST, valoczy writes: >>What of Powerglide? In the list, he's C-62.. In his original Japanese release, yeah. But in his recent Transformers Collection 12 (minibots) release, they gave him 62. No C qualifier. >>Here's where I pull Generations off the bookshelf, and get confused - why is there kana interspersed with hanzi? :P Well, according to the list in the back, there wasn't a '77', apart from Battle Beast Shadow Warrior Bureeiiguru (= something-eagle?), but I'm pretty sure that we're ignoring those. Indeed. >>Proper TFs, there wasn't one numbered simply '77'. *C-77* was Rodimus Prime, and *D-77* was Headstrong. In this list, Ultra Magnus is C-69, and Metroplex is C-70. According to the list, the C- and D- prefixes start at #50 - with C-50 being Silverbolt, and D-50 being Motormaster. Yup yup. >>Another interesting thing I noticed in the list is Dirge, who is numbered as simply '97'. Not D-97, just 97. The part where he is looks like this: 1986 D-55 Menasor 1986 D-56 Ramjet 1986 D-57 Thrust 1986 97 Dirge 1984 D-58 Frenzy 1984 D-59 Ravage D-97 is Flywheels, and there doesn't seem to be anything missing from the sequence. Dirge is asterisked as *32 with a footnote at the bottom of the page (p. 155), unfortunately I can't read Japanese enough to figure it out...and then, Ironhide is 98 and Ratchet is 99. Footnote #32...I'm guessing they're making mention of the fact that Dirge was a mailaway and he wasn't given a series number until his limited reissue in 2001, before the original Generations volume was published...so they put it in and added the footnote. Ironhide's got footnote #3 and it looks like his mentions Ratchet and Dirge and their 2001 reissuing as well. They basically just shoved Dirge in with his fellow coneheads in the list. >>This is bugging me enough, that looked at the list piecemeal...not that the results'll be anything useful, but eh... I made a sequential list. The numbered (no C- or D-) TFs go from 01 to 49. From 50 on, I filled in those toys that didn't have a number (US-only releases and Japanese specials), those that were listed with VSX or VSZ, Rumble (who is listed as 17 in brackets - 17 is Soundwave),... He was originally packaged with Soundwave. |